Key points include:

-Provoke should generate enough threat to reliably hold aggro.
-Pets should remain spawned through travel, speeders, and possibly function as mounts.
-Pet buffs should persist through death.
-Pet revive should have increased range, more forgiving targeting, or corpse-follow behavior like live.
-Pet Autofire AI should cycle abilities faster to reduce downtime.
-Creature Knowledge should have more range, a longer buff, be usable in combat, and not require channeling.
-Master BM box should provide a unique benefit to make it worth completing.

These are great ideas, and I personally would love to see them implemented.

Agree!

I think the "2. Pets should stick around through travel and speeders" and "3. Pets should keep buffs through death" could also be solved by using a method seen with some other servers of apply the master's buffs to the pet. Just the doc and offy buffs though IMO, if we applied everything it would probably be too much

Thank you so much for taking the time to put together such a detailed and thoughtful suggestion! Development was able to implement some of your changes in our last patch, including a reduction to Provoke’s cooldown along with a boost to its taunt power, as well as extending Creature Knowledge’s range and duration.

It’s great suggestions like yours that help us identify areas where professions can feel smoother and more fun to play, and we really appreciate the effort you put into outlining your ideas. Keep the feedback coming it makes a big difference for the whole community!

Orton
Evolve Community Manager

Posting here as instructed.

-Provoke still not efficient enough in solo play with a defensive pet. Defensive pets can tank the damage from solo content and/or OG's, Mustafar etc just fine with doctor healing but will not hold aggro vs a player character built for damage. This is in some cases intended which is fine however severly lacking in others.
Suggestion: Make provoke stronger in content scaled for up to 8 players that normally does not take much effort to complete IE OG's, Mustafar instances and daily content. Disable provoke vs World Bosses and harder content like Avatar Hardmode including new game modes in development. (Also see next suggestion)

-BE pets should be able to be crafted as a pure defensive beast and be useful, this is not the case now and to my knowledge never was.
Suggestion: If a creature is created scaling towards defense over offense, defensive abilities like Dampen Pain, Trample has a damage component that generate heavy amounts of threat in conjunction with provoke. For this to take effect Provoke must be learned by the pet and all active skills need to be in autofire mode. Only creatures with the defensive, avoidance or armored typing can be created in this manner. This to prevent creatures normally used for damage to be utilized as damage/tank hybrids. In situations where Provoke is disabled - The added damage component and threat generated through this mechanic is also disabled.

-Master Beastmaster box not being used is unsettling. The fact that both the builds that utilize pets doesnt have a master box with jewelry added to it or some sort of stat bonus is a big negative selling point for the professions.
Suggestion: Add a secondary heal that works for pets only with a direct heal component and a secondary heal over time component on a longer cooldown. The cooldown should be longer than the duration of the heal over time component to prevent overlap. The initial direct heal can be strong and the heal over time component can start out strong but fade as the timer ticks down. Exlude this heal from ability resets that high luck provides.
Suggestion 2: On top of this heal, add 10-15% healing potency buff to pet heals only. This to make more build variety available for Beastmasters and not force them down the Master Doctor line like it is now.
Suggestion 3: As suggested earlier with a rework of Provoke and defensive abilities this could also be tied into the Master Box or new boxes gained after speccing into the master box to make it an active choice. If you want your pet to be able to tank you will have to give something else up and by speccing deep into the tree to access stronger abilities for your pet could be a way moving forward.

-Pets losing doctor and squadleader buffs when stored and/or on death. This directly affect the damage output and defensive performances of the pets if losing their buffs in combat since there's no way of easily re-applying them.
-Suggestion: Same as stated earlier in this thread - Make them into a master type buff. If the player has doctor/squadleader buffs on their person the pet shares the buff and duration timers. Players no longer lose their buffs upon death, pets should be treated the same way.

-Entertainer Inspiration buff not available for pets, while not an issue in itself, some QoL would improve pet performance.
Suggestion: Pet recieve a percentage of the stats used for the player, as an example if player gets inspired for maximum kin/ene and +300 in a stat pet's can recieve 10-20% of that as a bonus.

I think that was all I had at this time, brain a little bit mushy after a long day but I hope it all makes sense and if it does not, let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

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Cheatmeal, post: 4094, member: 2918 wrote:

Posting here as instructed.

-Provoke still not efficient enough in solo play with a defensive pet. Defensive pets can tank the damage from solo content and/or OG's, Mustafar etc just fine with doctor healing but will not hold aggro vs a player character built for damage. This is in some cases intended which is fine however severly lacking in others.
Suggestion: Make provoke stronger in content scaled for up to 8 players that normally does not take much effort to complete IE OG's, Mustafar instances and daily content. Disable provoke vs World Bosses and harder content like Avatar Hardmode including new game modes in development. (Also see next suggestion)

-BE pets should be able to be crafted as a pure defensive beast and be useful, this is not the case now and to my knowledge never was.
Suggestion: If a creature is created scaling towards defense over offense, defensive abilities like Dampen Pain, Trample has a damage component that generate heavy amounts of threat in conjunction with provoke. For this to take effect Provoke must be learned by the pet and all active skills need to be in autofire mode. Only creatures with the defensive, avoidance or armored typing can be created in this manner. This to prevent creatures normally used for damage to be utilized as damage/tank hybrids. In situations where Provoke is disabled - The added damage component and threat generated through this mechanic is also disabled.

-Master Beastmaster box not being used is unsettling. The fact that both the builds that utilize pets doesnt have a master box with jewelry added to it or some sort of stat bonus is a big negative selling point for the professions.
Suggestion: Add a secondary heal that works for pets only with a direct heal component and a secondary heal over time component on a longer cooldown. The cooldown should be longer than the duration of the heal over time component to prevent overlap. The initial direct heal can be strong and the heal over time component can start out strong but fade as the timer ticks down. Exlude this heal from ability resets that high luck provides.
Suggestion 2: On top of this heal, add 10-15% healing potency buff to pet heals only. This to make more build variety available for Beastmasters and not force them down the Master Doctor line like it is now.
Suggestion 3: As suggested earlier with a rework of Provoke and defensive abilities this could also be tied into the Master Box or new boxes gained after speccing into the master box to make it an active choice. If you want your pet to be able to tank you will have to give something else up and by speccing deep into the tree to access stronger abilities for your pet could be a way moving forward.

-Pets losing doctor and squadleader buffs when stored and/or on death. This directly affect the damage output and defensive performances of the pets if losing their buffs in combat since there's no way of easily re-applying them.
-Suggestion: Same as stated earlier in this thread - Make them into a master type buff. If the player has doctor/squadleader buffs on their person the pet shares the buff and duration timers. Players no longer lose their buffs upon death, pets should be treated the same way.

-Entertainer Inspiration buff not available for pets, while not an issue in itself, some QoL would improve pet performance.
Suggestion: Pet recieve a percentage of the stats used for the player, as an example if player gets inspired for maximum kin/ene and +300 in a stat pet's can recieve 10-20% of that as a bonus.

I think that was all I had at this time, brain a little bit mushy after a long day but I hope it all makes sense and if it does not, let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

Here is your revised structured response with each section addressed clearly and professionally:

[HR][/HR]

Thank you again for the detailed breakdown. I’ll respond to each section individually below.

[HR][/HR]

Provoke Concerns

Some NPCs do have taunt resistance mechanics built in, and that may be what you’re experiencing. We performed extensive testing on pet taunt and Provoke behavior during development. If you could please provide the specific NPCs or instances where this feels inconsistent, that would help significantly. Before tasking our Quality Assurance team with additional testing, we’ll need more detailed examples so we can properly reproduce the issue.

[HR][/HR]

Defensive-Focused BE Pets

Regarding defensive crafting paths for BE pets, I’m going to consult with other members of the staff team. I don’t feel I’m personally educated enough on the deeper BE mechanics to give a fully informed response at this time. Once I’ve had those discussions, we can revisit this portion of the suggestion with better clarity.

[HR][/HR]

Master Beastmaster Box

Our team is already aware of the concerns surrounding the Master Beastmaster box and its current relevance. We have been exploring strategies internally to make the master box more meaningful and impactful. Your feedback reinforces that this is an area players care about.

[HR][/HR]

Pets Losing Doctor and Squadleader Buffs

Development will take a look at this. The most likely solution, if feasible, would be to have pets maintain buffs in a similar manner to how players retain theirs through death or logout. We will need to evaluate technical limitations before confirming anything further.

[HR][/HR]

Entertainer Inspiration for Pets

This is an interesting idea and could add additional relevance for active, at-keyboard Entertainers by allowing them to buff pets directly. The most straightforward implementation would likely allow an Entertainer to apply a buff to a pet that is automatically accepted. I’ll pass this along to development and see what the consensus is on feasibility and balance.

[HR][/HR]

We appreciate the thought and depth that went into these suggestions.

Orton
Evolve Community Manager

orton, post: 4095, member: 2006 wrote:

Provoke Concerns

Some NPCs do have taunt resistance mechanics built in, and that may be what you’re experiencing. We performed extensive testing on pet taunt and Provoke behavior during development. If you could please provide the specific NPCs or instances where this feels inconsistent, that would help significantly. Before tasking our Quality Assurance team with additional testing, we’ll need more detailed examples so we can properly reproduce the issue.

[HR][/HR]

So I did DW Arena Hardmode and Revanite just now on my Assassin/Commando/BM w/heavy weapons (Juggernaut) and my Rancor simply will not hold aggro. Normal mobs lvl 90-91 will be just fine, 101 they start to pingpong and the boss in DWA was fine for the most part but there was a few instances of pingpoing to the point where I had to burn defensives. Both me and pet died once but after getting the first of the 3 captains down the other 2 soon followed and the general even tho not a threat in that sense did not focus his attention on the pet as it should. Whenever provoke was used, the snap aggro was enough to turn the focus back onto the pet but it did not last very long. Now I understand that this is somewhat intended and it is supposed to be difficult but in a solo instances if you bring a tank pet - It should be able to hold aggro no matter what you do by yourself.

Revanite was worse. The cultists was fine, they turned on me sometimes after a few big devastation hits but nothing too concerning, the leader however was a different story. My pet was only able to hold aggro for short bursts after provoke went off or if I stopped attacking completely and on top of it the pet got chunked so hard that I nearly lost it twice. I am 9 points in doctor and it's barely enough to keep the pet alive. If it intended to have to go deep into doctor to be functional BM against solo encounters then I will just leave it alone and build a tank character and have a dps pet as a side kick for fluff and memes but that isn't what I want to do.

I tried DWA Hardmode on my rifleman assassin/tkm/Bm with a hawk-bat (no provoke) and it held aggro better than my rancor with provoke did. That character is also deeper into doctor and was able to keep the hawk-bat alive for most of the time - Same situation there, died once to the 3 captains but once 1 was dead the other 2 followed. Even on this character Revanite daily felt worse, this character is defensively built with steel body jewelry on and almost died to the point where I had to start kiting and spamming heal stims just to stay alive and by that time, even if I stopped attacking the pet would not regain aggro - Could maybe have been different with a provoke pet but I doubt it.

Cheatmeal, post: 4096, member: 2918 wrote:

So I did DW Arena Hardmode and Revanite just now on my Assassin/Commando/BM w/heavy weapons (Juggernaut) and my Rancor simply will not hold aggro. Normal mobs lvl 90-91 will be just fine, 101 they start to pingpong and the boss in DWA was fine for the most part but there was a few instances of pingpoing to the point where I had to burn defensives. Both me and pet died once but after getting the first of the 3 captains down the other 2 soon followed and the general even tho not a threat in that sense did not focus his attention on the pet as it should. Whenever provoke was used, the snap aggro was enough to turn the focus back onto the pet but it did not last very long. Now I understand that this is somewhat intended and it is supposed to be difficult but in a solo instances if you bring a tank pet - It should be able to hold aggro no matter what you do by yourself.

Revanite was worse. The cultists was fine, they turned on me sometimes after a few big devastation hits but nothing too concerning, the leader however was a different story. My pet was only able to hold aggro for short bursts after provoke went off or if I stopped attacking completely and on top of it the pet got chunked so hard that I nearly lost it twice. I am 9 points in doctor and it's barely enough to keep the pet alive. If it intended to have to go deep into doctor to be functional BM against solo encounters then I will just leave it alone and build a tank character and have a dps pet as a side kick for fluff and memes but that isn't what I want to do.

I tried DWA Hardmode on my rifleman assassin/tkm/Bm with a hawk-bat (no provoke) and it held aggro better than my rancor with provoke did. That character is also deeper into doctor and was able to keep the hawk-bat alive for most of the time - Same situation there, died once to the 3 captains but once 1 was dead the other 2 followed. Even on this character Revanite daily felt worse, this character is defensively built with steel body jewelry on and almost died to the point where I had to start kiting and spamming heal stims just to stay alive and by that time, even if I stopped attacking the pet would not regain aggro - Could maybe have been different with a provoke pet but I doubt it.

Thank you for the continued discussion around Provoke and pet threat mechanics. After reviewing this with our staff team, I want to clarify a few important points.

Mechanically, most of the original Heroic bosses were never designed to be traditionally tauntable, especially encounters like Exar Kun. These bosses primarily function on damage-based threat tables, meaning they target whoever is producing the highest sustained damage. That behavior mirrors how SOE originally designed many of these fights. As a result, certain bosses being referenced are working as intended and cannot simply be forced to hold aggro through taunt alone.

Additionally, Provoke is not intended to be a press-once-and-you’re-good ability. In most MMOs, tanks are required to consistently build and maintain threat, particularly when grouped with strong DPS players. If DPS output exceeds sustained threat generation, aggro loss is expected behavior and part of encounter balance.

That said, we understand the concerns around sustained threat generation and overall pet tank consistency. Staff are currently discussing potential solutions to address this in a balanced and appropriate way.

Our development team will also be reviewing buff behavior and sticking mechanics to ensure everything is functioning correctly.

If you believe specific non-Heroic NPCs are behaving inconsistently, please provide exact examples so QA can properly reproduce and verify. Detailed reports are always more actionable than general comparisons.

We appreciate the continued feedback and discussion around pet viability and threat mechanics.

Orton
Evolve Community Manager

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orton, post: 4099, member: 2006 wrote:

Additionally, Provoke is not intended to be a press-once-and-you’re-good ability. In most MMOs, tanks are required to consistently build and maintain threat, particularly when grouped with strong DPS players. If DPS output exceeds sustained threat generation, aggro loss is expected behavior and part of encounter balance.

This right here - This is where the problem lies with defensive style pets in SWG (And in a big way creating an extra tanky one via the defensive path in the incubator) A defensive style pet will never generate enough hatred towards dps on this server with the power levels we have. They can to a degree on Legends but even there it's not a set and forget playstyle which I do not want either. You have to watch your cooldowns, defensives and maybe back off sometimes. This is true in other games as well that have pet classes (Hunters in World of Warcraft for example).

An offensive built pet can generate much more hate and pair that with provoke it can hold aggro quite well, the flip side of that coin is that offensive style pets can't take the damage and gets killed - as they should. Defensive pets does so little damage that the threat generation outside of snap aggro via provoke is laughable at best.

This is where I would like to see something change so that defensive style pets finds more use in overall gameplay but mostly solo play.

Most of the QoL suggestions in this thread should be in place on TC right now.

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