Make Carbines Great Again

[Hellion493]

Pistols got a very nice review and in a decent place with the right build. Rifles are decent if you know how to use them effectively. Heavy Weapons...well, they're just fine as is.
But what about the carbines? Carbines have always been a great medium of sustained and spike damage for the player who typically likes a challenge on when to push and when to hold. But currently carbines are feeling pretty weak in the damage department. Even with Master Combat Medic it can still be countered easily, because carbines get most of their damage through DOTs.

"But Hellion, we just got DOT mod bits in the new content!" Correct. But with the testing I did on TC it was still pretty meh. And DOTs are easily removed. What I'm suggesting (for now) is a look at the expertise points. Pistols get a +32 damage bonus. Rifles get +12. Carbines also get +12.

***-Increase carbine damage from +3 pps to +6 pps ***

Relentless Onslaught. Is basically useless as it stands. With all the ACR available in the game, you don't need it. I suggest a full rework of the ability. Something like:
***-Increase DOT damage by 50% for 10 seconds, 45 second cool down.
-Increase carbine damage 30% for 30 seconds, 60 second cool down.
-DOTs applied while active can not be cleansed/removed. 20 second up time, 60 second cool down. ***
***-Provides a chance to hit twice with carbines (similar to hammer fan) but only while buff is active. ***

[Rezerian]

Certainly would like to see carbines get some attention, I'd like to see return fire buffed or looked at as well. The return damage on it is so bad that its completely pointless to pick it up.
Also I suggested this before but I do believe the proc rate for its dots should still be brought up to 30% from 20% to help make it competitive with heavy weapon options.

[Hellion493]

Bump for further ideas and discussion!
I've been tinkering between several builds and carbs are just simply lacking. Rifles can still demolish with spike damage. Pistols are in a good spot with the right expertise and jewelry.

[Xaruul]

Have you tested with DoT Damage increase foods and exotics from TC though with reapplication times? I do feel with carbines being able to also dip into CM then also getting a food and drink(IIRC) with +9 DoT Damage and then Exotics that can be made for DoT damage as well and id imagine into PuPs, that increasing anything with carbines may make them way over tuned. Again asking if it has been tested or not because i havent yet. Though i will admit id like to see their tree remastered with some of the abilities other than the DoTs looked into.

[Hellion493]

Xaruul, post: 4670, member: 545 wrote:

Have you tested with DoT Damage increase foods and exotics from TC though with reapplication times? I do feel with carbines being able to also dip into CM then also getting a food and drink(IIRC) with +9 DoT Damage and then Exotics that can be made for DoT damage as well and id imagine into PuPs, that increasing anything with carbines may make them way over tuned. Again asking if it has been tested or not because i havent yet. Though i will admit id like to see their tree remastered with some of the abilities other than the DoTs looked into.

Only thing I haven't tried is the foods/drinks. I did go full on DOT mods within TC on some instances and they do work fairly well (exotics/pups) but that's only relying on CM. Carbs and fencer are the only weapon profession that are dependent on another skill (CM) and in my opinion it just shouldn't be that way. Almost like fencer and carbs are on rails and the only viable option is to go CM. Which isn't necessarily what Evolve is about. Now, you could argue that no other weapon skill is very useful with CM and I'd agree with you.

The point I'm trying to make is - weapons professions shouldn't be directly tied and/or only viable for certain professions. Every weapon profession should have it's down draw backs and bonuses (like they do) but essentially requiring a profession (CM, which is very heavy in skill points btw) shouldn't prevent someone from wanting to play the weapon class they want.

My only other argument which isn't much right now is PvP. It's so easy to cleanse DOTs in PvP nowadays because everyone can get a cleanse fairly early in the expertise. Which is where the rebuild of Relentless Onslaught would come into play. If no change is wanted within the DOT system, okay, but if carbs and fencer are so relied on DOTs there has to be something to counter a cleanse. Which in turn, could be to tune up the DPS of carbs within expertise like I mentioned in the first post. Or do something with Relentless that aids the DOTs.

[Hellion493]

Rezerian, post: 4596, member: 565 wrote:

Certainly would like to see carbines get some attention, I'd like to see return fire buffed or looked at as well. The return damage on it is so bad that its completely pointless to pick it up.
Also I suggested this before but I do believe the proc rate for its dots should still be brought up to 30% from 20% to help make it competitive with heavy weapon options.

IIRC during the great combat revamp the proc rate was a lot higher and was too OP. So it was knocked down to 20. IMO 20% proc is okay because of the fast refire of carbs.

[Hellion493]

Xaruul, post: 4670, member: 545 wrote:

Have you tested with DoT Damage increase foods and exotics from TC though with reapplication times? I do feel with carbines being able to also dip into CM then also getting a food and drink(IIRC) with +9 DoT Damage and then Exotics that can be made for DoT damage as well and id imagine into PuPs, that increasing anything with carbines may make them way over tuned. Again asking if it has been tested or not because i havent yet. Though i will admit id like to see their tree remastered with some of the abilities other than the DoTs looked into.

Forgot to even mention jewelry sets. The Enforcer set is good but it's focuses on literally one ability. Whereas Fencer it adds perks to the DOT system and it's own class.