Swordsman Changes few other Expertise Tweak Suggestions
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Currently, if you max out TKM, the passive amount of Melee Damage Increase of just putting points in is +38%, throw in the additional 10% from Assassin, that's 48%. This is not taking into account Damage Stance which is +25% overall damage output.
A possible course of action to take is to re-allocate a lot of the melee damage from TKM and determine how to incorporate that into the 4 melee weapon trees. Commando is to be the ranged equal and there’s only about a quarter of the same damage output that’s put into that and it’s considered overall damage output and not ranged damage. Because the new 2-H weapons have a higher min & max damage, in my observations, they will naturally produce higher damage the higher the % of damage is given to them.
Through my testing of the new 2-H Lightsaber that is objectively better than any current 2-H 2-second melee weapon, the damage output is not the same due to Jedi not having the same amount of passive damage increase that non-Jedi melee have. That passive 2-H lightsaber damage, solely from the Battlemaster tree, is 12% if you put all the points in there to reach it. The main reason why melee Jedi will be able to compete right now is because Saber Flurry is currently giving out a guaranteed 4x hit with each activation while Saber Burst has a built-in 50% armor penetration/neglect. This plans to be re-adjusted down the road but works for the time being. In the initial testing before it was adjusted to bring the damage down, half of the damage from Melee Jedi was coming from two abilities only, everything else was less than half the total of either one of those abilities.
Overall, I'm open to re-looking at TKM since that seems to be a large factor for why 2-H is performing well from my overall observations.
Historical reactions: Like × 1
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I actually just tested this and my overall damage, with abilities included and no other buffs beyond the striker's 5-piece bonus, not having TKM reduced my damage from hitting consistently. Without TKM, I cannot land an attack that hits over 10k, both basic attacks and special abilities. With TKM, I consistently hit over that amount. This is with my 2-H 2 second kashyyyk weapon.
This again, is just preliminary testing but overall, further testing will be needed across the other weapons to see how it all evens out. The new foods and drinks will certainly provide even more of a power increase so that will need to be taken into account as well.
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Cailener1234, post: 4484, member: 548 wrote:
I actually just tested this and my overall damage, with abilities included and no other buffs beyond the striker's 5-piece bonus, not having TKM reduced my damage from hitting consistently. Without TKM, I cannot land an attack that hits over 10k, both basic attacks and special abilities. With TKM, I consistently hit over that amount. This is with my 2-H 2 second kashyyyk weapon.
This again, is just preliminary testing but overall, further testing will be needed across the other weapons to see how it all evens out. The new foods and drinks will certainly provide even more of a power increase so that will need to be taken into account as well.
If you don't mind sharing, what do you test your attacks against. If I start testing would like to keep the data as consistent as I can. Nuna, Canyon Krayt, Swoop Gang, Test Dummy (What Settings?).
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I just smacked up the dummy a bit to get a cursory feel of the damage overall, I haven’t done any harder/detailed testing with specific numbers between TKM or not yet. I’ll probably do so this weekend. I have done specific testing with the Jedi side so that does have 3-minute tests I’ve mainly done with the two-handed lightsaber.
However, it is not a fair test to compare two-handed Jedi with two-handed swordsman as the passive damage between the two is too skewed for non-Jedi at the moment.
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I wasn't thinking jedi vs non-jedi. I was thinking between Unarmed, Fencer, Polearm, Swordsman.
- Compare a variety of weapons like Starter Weapon, 1k DPS Mustafar (or equivalent), and Kashyyyk Weapon.
- Using there base skills and ranked skills, Example Fencer uses Default, Melee Strike, Decapitate (Ranked added points), Crippling Vortex (Ranked added points), Project Will. Example Swordsman uses Default, Melee Strike, Dizzy (Ranked added points), Vital Strike (Ranked added points), Flurry, Project Will.
- Varying amounts of Increased Melee Damage from TKM. Example no TKM, Base TKM 8%, Unarmed Damage 5-20%, Master TKM 10% (side note the 10% isn't readily listed). Damage Stance?
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Certainly do appreciate the breakdown you’re thinking of how to test this all out when it comes to non-Jedi melee across the board. If you would like to do some testing on your own, feel free to do so and can create a document that we can take in and look at.
I know we had a refocus of some of 5-Piece bonuses, but it’s been a while since there was a focus on the basics of those 4 classes. The goal for One-Handed is to hit faster and to apply more pressure with the dots and consistent damage, Two-Handed to hit slower but deal high damage, Polearm to work in an AOE setting, unarmed did not have a plan so it’s assumed that’s fine as is.
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I’ll see what I can arrange support wise with the developers as I’m sure someone can hook you up with a specified target or weapon that help with overall testing on TC. Likely to come after this patch as Priority One is getting the current patch out.
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Cailener1234, post: 4494, member: 548 wrote:
I’ll see what I can arrange support wise with the developers as I’m sure someone can hook you up with a specified target or weapon that help with overall testing on TC. Likely to come after this patch as Priority One is getting the current patch out.
I am looking forward to the coming patch.
Just would like to see more variety of weapon choices instead of seeing only a single class choice because its way stronger then the rest.
Where Flurry lands is another concept all together, would hate to see it get reduced just because it's feeling overpowered in PVP. If it is overpowered and can remain overpowered it should cost a overpowered cost and not be placed in the Melee Skillset but instead into an Combat Skillset. But will adjust if that is what needs to happen.
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Yatoya, post: 4476, member: 1107 wrote:
This is not the first thread making suggestions to change up Swordsman as of recent.
Issues existing presently with Swordsman.
Its the go to class for completing harder content like Revanite Daily Challenge because it provides Flurry (easy access) which is presently 20% damage decrease debuff to targets (TC is set to change it to 10%).
Swordsman hits hard because we got stronger weapons with Kashyyyk Content, 2 speed weapons, they hit slower but harder.
Melee as a class hits harder then Ranged and with recent understanding of this more of the player base are switching to Melee and especially to Swordsman with its defensive debuff Flurry. I happened to join a Battlefields recently and I believe over 1/2 were slated for Swordsman.Swordsman is creating a less diverse player builds.
Why I say Flurry should not get nerfed to 10%.
Flurry is one of the tools I use to tank Elite Blackscale Captains, as is they hit hard even with a 20% debuff, there going to hit harder with 10% debuff. I stack very heavy for damage reduction and debuffs against these and still I go down.
If the issue is strictly that Flurry is to powerful in PVP nerf it for PVP, but please not for PVE content.
Granted we are going to get new 3-Piece Jewelry Sets which one of them will provide 5% damage decrease received.
Why Flurry should get moved.
Teras Kasi has long been a strong defensive class in SWG going back to Pre-CU.
Flurry is a defense ability (presently a very powerful one) and is only readily available to one class of characters Swordsman. This causes players to focus on only one class for melee.
If it was moved to Teras Kasi Artist and required to Master Teras Kasi before being obtained (possibly to the left of Master), this would fall well inline with Bounty Hunter and its defensive ability Shields.Place Flurry into a defensive class (Teras Kasi Artist) and make it expensive to obtain
It would also shift melee players out of Swordsman and into other melee classes.I understand that Melee hits hard and moving Flurry to an already powerful class would make the class overpowered.
Why Melee Damage in Teras Kasi Artist should get nerfed.
With the above suggested change to Flurry being moved to Teras Kasi Artist I believe that Melee Damage from Teras Kasi Artist should be nerfed.
With as high as Melee can presently stack Melee Damage it should be nerfed.Comparison between my Ranged Assassin Build (Rifles) and my Melee Assassin Build (Swordsman) almost exactly same build style. Rifleman was roughly 10-18k DPS (adjusted to Commando instead of Teras Kasi Artist for alternative defense results in a 2-3k DPS uplift granting it 12-21k DPS), and Swordsman was roughly 20-28k DPS. That is a very large gap in DPS. Its about a 7-9k DPS gap.
On TC we are looking at present a general 3-Piece Jewelry set that will give 5% Ranged/Melee Damage increase (melee gets more with Strength). Ranged is getting a 3-Piece set more specific that will give 16% Ranged Damage with boost to Critical Damage (this will help close the gap between melee and ranged damage).
Nerfing Melee Damage will reduce the gap between Ranged Damage and Melee Damage providing more variety of viable Ranged Classes.
Melee Damage Increase in the Teras Kasi Artist should be nerfed by -10-15%.Summary
Move Flurry from Swordsman and place it past Master Teras Kasi in Teras Kasi Artist.
Don't nerf Flurry from 20% debuff to 10% debuff.
Reduce Melee Damage in Teras Kasi Artist by -10-15%.Thank you for taking the time to put together such a detailed discussion and to everyone who contributed testing, observations, and feedback throughout the thread.
This is exactly the kind of productive balance discussion we like to see. There are several important points being raised here regarding melee damage scaling, Flurry’s role in both PvE and PvP, TKM passive damage contributions, and overall build diversity across melee professions.
The staff and QA teams have already been actively testing and discussing many of these same concerns internally. As some players correctly identified in the thread, a large part of the current performance gap appears tied to the interaction between newer high damage 2-second weapons and the amount of passive melee damage available through TKM. At the same time, we also recognize concerns about Flurry becoming too mandatory for PvE tanking and group utility.
At this stage, no final decisions have been made regarding where Flurry ultimately belongs or what exact adjustments may occur. These systems are interconnected, and changes to one area can heavily impact multiple professions, PvE balance, and PvP meta diversity. Because of that, we want to continue gathering data and testing before committing to larger structural changes.
We also appreciate the community members volunteering to help with structured testing and data collection. That kind of collaboration is extremely valuable as we continue refining combat balance.
Please keep in mind we are simultaneously preparing for a major chapter release, so some of these larger balance passes may take time. However, discussions like this absolutely help shape future adjustments and direction.
Thanks again to everyone contributing constructively to the conversation.
Orton
Evolve Community ManagerHistorical reactions: Like × 1
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