Feedback for latest patch 2.10 & 2.11

[Ishna]

(2.11) Force Choke Changes:

• Healing Reduction from Force Choke has been reduced
• Duration of Force Choke has been reduced to 6 seconds
• Added a 30 second Force Choke Recourse to the Improved Force Choke Debuff (Does not affect the Choke Snare)

(2.10) FRS:

• Fixed unintended ways of earning FRS that were being abused (earning FRS while dead, earning FRS without getting a hit on an opponent, same faction FRS gains)
• FRS Decay for ranks higher than Rank 4 will have larger weekly decay based on rank
• FRS Kills will now grant higher bounties based on rank
• Fixed an exploit allowing Jedi that resigned from FRS or lost FRS Rank to still equip robes they are no longer qualified to wear

This post is with feedback from multiple players along with some of my personal insights. I would first start off by saying that I do not main Jedi, I have a good understanding of how they work, I fight against them a lot as a TKM main and this weeks patch was a huge nerf to something thats supposed to be an Alpha class.

To first address the Force Choke revamp, I think it was a little heavy handed on the nerf side. Adding a recourse to an ability that does multiple things without addressing the sub-effects of the ability was too much. Some recommendations that have been passed to me, were to keep the recourse specifically for the healcut, and to shorten the overall length of the recourse but not have the recourse effect the dmg reduction from choke. As it stands right now, most classes can outheal Jedi dmg. There can be some point of contention for that statement, but just from my testing, not just on my TKM, I can run against Jedi and cleanse their heal cuts before the update 90% of the time. The ONLY time it was actually a problem was when trying to fight multiple Jedi at the same time. Which will still be true now depending on how the recourse affects abilities from other Jedi, so in turn, you've only gimped Jedi that are fighting solo. Due to our current population during non-events, most PvP is solo which further pushes Jedi into hiding.

Secondly, to address the FRS decay. I agree with all moves except increasing the FRS decay. While this is the main game for most people, let's face it, we're mostly all older, have daily lives and full schedules, and gaming is a chance to relax. For those that do main Jedi this pushes them into constantly worrying about if they're going to get enough FRS to maintain rank, which will force more people to only play their Jedi's which makes overall PvP experience less fun (Constant Jedi v. Jedi is BORING). Yes, we have PvP events where FRS is plentiful, but not everyone can make those events. And aside from the FFA event we just had, having faction based events are going to be even worse with the disproportionate numbers that are currently heavily advantageous to the rebel side. FRS decay numbers were not an issue before, and it's puzzled some as to why there is constant change to them. Before with the 2500 decay, it allowed you to play your other classes and have fun while still being able to maintain your rank on the Jedi. If the intent is for Council Jedi to only be the Jedi mains, then the update was a move in the right direction. But if that isn't your intent, it's a weird change. Especially with how wonky the current FRS rewarding system is. Side not to this, bring back the same faction FRS gain, please. It doesn't make sense that you can still be hunted by the same faction hunters but not get FRS for the kill. The people who exploited the system are gone. Those that remain would like some normality towards Jedi. Constant changes to the class and reward system are pushing people the wrong way.


I would love criticism. Some of this was provided by other players and is just a general consensus of the feel of things at the moment. The rest of it was specifically from me, a non-Jedi main who doesn't want the Jedi to be easy to kill. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

-Tank

 

[Rezec]

Recourse is on the TARGET. This is the first in a long line of fixing numerous broken Recourses in the game. Many stuns should have them but at some point in the source code they were broken or removed. Long term this keeps a single player from being mowed down by chain stuns and chain debuffs.

FRS decay being higher for the higher two ranks is no different than GCW decay being higher for those higher ranks, the only difference is the FRS is providing visual numbers to people. The system was always designed to incentive PvP. Having max rank and ranking up every week is not an entitlement. I personally lost rank on my Jedi too.

What the offending player did was show how easy it was to cheese and manipulate the existing FRS system and while the first step is removing the person who exploits a system, the second step is to fix the problem from happening again because other people WILL do it again at some point. That's the unfortunate truth about online gaming.

 

[Ishna]

Recourse is on the TARGET. This is the first in a long line of fixing numerous broken Recourses in the game. Many stuns should have them but at some point in the source code they were broken or removed. Long term this keeps a single player from being mowed down by chain stuns and chain debuffs.

FRS decay being higher for the higher two ranks is no different than GCW decay being higher for those higher ranks, the only difference is the FRS is providing visual numbers to people. The system was always designed to incentive PvP. Having max rank and ranking up every week is not an entitlement. I personally lost rank on my Jedi too.

What the offending player did was show how easy it was to cheese and manipulate the existing FRS system and while the first step is removing the person who exploits a system, the second step is to fix the problem from happening again because other people WILL do it again at some point. That's the unfortunate truth about online gaming.

Recourse being on the target is nice, however the duration is still something of concern. The cut% was reduced, and they can only apply it every 30 seconds, put's it far behind in terms of effectiveness of non-jedi. For example running Bacta Corruption and Dread Strike way outpaces you in terms of heal cut effectiveness. You didn't address why the recourse is also linked to damage reduction. Hoping for some clarification on if there are plans to specifically add recourse to just the heal cut, or if it shipped as intended.

While FRS decay being higher per rank is understandable to a certain extent to match the GCW system, GCW is far easier to get than FRS. What if a system was introduced to purchase FRS scrolls with FRS tokens? I know me personally, I probably have close to 400 tokens on my Jedi and have no intent on purchasing things from the vendor, I love playing on my TKM compared to my Jedi but aim to still keep my Jedi at max rank. It's like that on the GCW side, so is there plans to add a similar system to the FRS side? I understand that losing ranks is natural and not everyone is going to maintain Rank 6, but it should still be achievable while not having to main it for those who aren't trying to full-time Jedi PvP.

While I do agree closing gaps of exploits is absolutely neccesary, some feel as if the system is being overcorrected and those that are left are left with an uphill battle to maintain Jedi ranks and FRS tokens. Tokens have already been taken away for almost 2 weeks outside of event rewards, FRS rewards per kill is now more difficult with timer and the overall availability of World PvP outside of events. Its a butterfly effect that is weakening the Jedi system overall. A certain rollback to normal wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed in ways that the system was exploited.

 

[Oujii2]

Recourse being on the target is nice, however the duration is still something of concern. The cut% was reduced, and they can only apply it every 30 seconds, put's it far behind in terms of effectiveness of non-jedi. For example running Bacta Corruption and Dread Strike way outpaces you in terms of heal cut effectiveness. You didn't address why the recourse is also linked to damage reduction. Hoping for some clarification on if there are plans to specifically add recourse to just the heal cut, or if it shipped as intended.

While FRS decay being higher per rank is understandable to a certain extent to match the GCW system, GCW is far easier to get than FRS. What if a system was introduced to purchase FRS scrolls with FRS tokens? I know me personally, I probably have close to 400 tokens on my Jedi and have no intent on purchasing things from the vendor, I love playing on my TKM compared to my Jedi but aim to still keep my Jedi at max rank. It's like that on the GCW side, so is there plans to add a similar system to the FRS side? I understand that losing ranks is natural and not everyone is going to maintain Rank 6, but it should still be achievable while not having to main it for those who aren't trying to full-time Jedi PvP.

While I do agree closing gaps of exploits is absolutely neccesary, some feel as if the system is being overcorrected and those that are left are left with an uphill battle to maintain Jedi ranks and FRS tokens. Tokens have already been taken away for almost 2 weeks outside of event rewards, FRS rewards per kill is now more difficult with timer and the overall availability of World PvP outside of events. Its a butterfly effect that is weakening the Jedi system overall. A certain rollback to normal wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed in ways that the system was exploited.

Imo the cut to choke was just to much from 60% to 20% ? What was the logic in cutting it that much and then also adding the recourse ?
It makes things so weak it feels to me like it is hardly worth having at this point .

 

[Oujii2]

Imo the cut to choke was just to much from 60% to 20% ? What was the logic in cutting it that much and then also adding the recourse ?
It makes things so weak it feels to me like it is hardly worth having at this point .

IMO the % of the cut was to much when paired with the recourse .
I think from 60% to 40% with the recourse would of done the job just fine .
In games like this even 10% makes a huge difference .
I don't know the full situation though to be fair .

 

[RangerPhenom]

With the duration reduction to 6 seconds and the ability cooldown at 12 seconds a 10% reduction would have been sufficient imo since the ability cannot be kept up 100% of the time while solo

 

[Vikingmando]

With the duration reduction to 6 seconds and the ability cooldown at 12 seconds a 10% reduction would have been sufficient imo since the ability cannot be kept up 100% of the time while solo

before the change at rank 3 it was a 6s CD on choke with a 13s debuff Which could be kept up 100% of the time in PvE solo. When it comes to pvp thats a little more complex. It depended greatly on if the person your fighting has the ability to cleanse debuffs from themselves and even greater on if they used them or not.

 

[Oujii2]

before the change at rank 3 it was a 6s CD on choke with a 13s debuff Which could be kept up 100% of the time in PvE solo. When it comes to pvp thats a little more complex. It depended greatly on if the person your fighting has the ability to cleanse debuffs from themselves and even greater on if they used them or not.

I

before the change at rank 3 it was a 6s CD on choke with a 13s debuff Which could be kept up 100% of the time in PvE solo. When it comes to pvp thats a little more complex. It depended greatly on if the person your fighting has the ability to cleanse debuffs from themselves and even greater on if they used them or not.

So this was all just an issue with people being able to solo a few things ?
Or was there someone using this to actually effect pvp and other peoples game play ?
I honestly don't know the situation is why I ask .

 

[Rezec]

With the duration reduction to 6 seconds and the ability cooldown at 12 seconds a 10% reduction would have been sufficient imo since the ability cannot be kept up 100% of the time while solo

Gameplay mechanics and combat are not built around a solo player or 1 v 1 confrontations, so adjustments MAY be made to this ability, but additional debuffs and stuns with recourses that are there but don't work will be fixed as well.

IMO the % of the cut was to much when paired with the recourse .
I think from 60% to 40% with the recourse would of done the job just fine .
In games like this even 10% makes a huge difference .
I don't know the full situation though to be fair .

40% may be more fair.

Recourse being on the target is nice, however the duration is still something of concern. The cut% was reduced, and they can only apply it every 30 seconds, put's it far behind in terms of effectiveness of non-jedi. For example running Bacta Corruption and Dread Strike way outpaces you in terms of heal cut effectiveness. You didn't address why the recourse is also linked to damage reduction. Hoping for some clarification on if there are plans to specifically add recourse to just the heal cut, or if it shipped as intended.

While FRS decay being higher per rank is understandable to a certain extent to match the GCW system, GCW is far easier to get than FRS. What if a system was introduced to purchase FRS scrolls with FRS tokens? I know me personally, I probably have close to 400 tokens on my Jedi and have no intent on purchasing things from the vendor, I love playing on my TKM compared to my Jedi but aim to still keep my Jedi at max rank. It's like that on the GCW side, so is there plans to add a similar system to the FRS side? I understand that losing ranks is natural and not everyone is going to maintain Rank 6, but it should still be achievable while not having to main it for those who aren't trying to full-time Jedi PvP.

While I do agree closing gaps of exploits is absolutely neccesary, some feel as if the system is being overcorrected and those that are left are left with an uphill battle to maintain Jedi ranks and FRS tokens. Tokens have already been taken away for almost 2 weeks outside of event rewards, FRS rewards per kill is now more difficult with timer and the overall availability of World PvP outside of events. Its a butterfly effect that is weakening the Jedi system overall. A certain rollback to normal wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed in ways that the system was exploited.

Why its linked to damage reduction - This is the SAME debuff. The recourse is on the debuff. If we add a second debuff to choke, then we may aswell add a second expertise box that will specifically effect the healcut debuff too. This healcut does not exist for Jedi on any other server.

On FRS Token Gain - This was a bug that was fixed with this last patch.

On FRS Scrolls - Maybe. The entire FRS is an OPTIONAL system for full time PvP mains. The goal is to reward the people who stick around and find ways to stay active, not to give people who play this server once a week and another server as their main server the same rewards. Its meant to be a fluid system where you wont be sitting at a static rank every week unless you are just that active every week.

On Exploits - "wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed" This would do more harm than good. Instead of providing a fix that MAKES everyone play fair, you put it back on staff to have to stay up late at night and monitor every single report from the community on people staying up late past staff to do these sort of things. Its how those people got caught, we had to go out of our way, as staff, to stay up late, incognito on new alts just to monitor and catch people in the act. This isn't fair on staff that do this for volunteer work and it's not for on players that earned their FRS the right way. Time after time after time it has been proven that if there are loop holes, people will come in and take advantage of them.


For the people that stick around, there are way more changes coming to classes and stats in our next revamp that will completely change about how people currently build their characters.

 

[Vikingmando]

I

So this was all just an issue with people being able to solo a few things ?
Or was there someone using this to actually effect pvp and other peoples game play ?
I honestly don't know the situation is why I ask .

I agree with Tank on this, the change was necessary but I think that having the recourse apply to both the heal cut and the damage reduction is a little heavy handed. I see why it was done that way, but it left jedi unintentionally weaker than intended. If we split it and the recourse only applied to the heal cut I would say that's a fair trade off. You could even increase the heal cut back up to 40% or even 60% if that's the case. Alternatively reducing the recourse to 15 seconds and putting the healcut back up to 40% or 60% would work imo too.

 

[Ishna]

I

So this was all just an issue with people being able to solo a few things ?
Or was there someone using this to actually effect pvp and other peoples game play ?
I honestly don't know the situation is why I ask .

My understanding is that it was a general complaint when talking about PvP and the fact a heal cut could be maintained 100% if no cleanse options we're available. Even if cleanse was available, multiple Jedi's could keep you at 100% uptime. Now I agree with adding a recourse timer on target. The only thing that seems a little hard is the length of the recourse and the % of the heal cut. You are correct that 60>20 is a drastic change. Obviously, it has an effect on being able to do things in PvE now.

 

[Oujii2]

Gameplay mechanics and combat are not built around a solo player or 1 v 1 confrontations, so adjustments MAY be made to this ability, but additional debuffs and stuns with recourses that are there but don't work will be fixed as well.



40% may be more fair.



Why its linked to damage reduction - This is the SAME debuff. The recourse is on the debuff. If we add a second debuff to choke, then we may aswell add a second expertise box that will specifically effect the healcut debuff too. This healcut does not exist for Jedi on any other server.

On FRS Token Gain - This was a bug that was fixed with this last patch.

On FRS Scrolls - Maybe. The entire FRS is an OPTIONAL system for full time PvP mains. The goal is to reward the people who stick around and find ways to stay active, not to give people who play this server once a week and another server as their main server the same rewards. Its meant to be a fluid system where you wont be sitting at a static rank every week unless you are just that active every week.

On Exploits - "wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed" This would do more harm than good. Instead of providing a fix that MAKES everyone play fair, you put it back on staff to have to stay up late at night and monitor every single report from the community on people staying up late past staff to do these sort of things. Its how those people got caught, we had to go out of our way, as staff, to stay up late, incognito on new alts just to monitor and catch people in the act. This isn't fair on staff that do this for volunteer work and it's not for on players that earned their FRS the right way. Time after time after time it has been proven that if there are loop holes, people will come in and take advantage of them.


For the people that stick around, there are way more changes coming to classes and stats in our next revamp that will completely change about how people currently build their characters.

My understanding is that it was a general complaint when talking about PvP and the fact a heal cut could be maintained 100% if no cleanse options we're available. Even if cleanse was available, multiple Jedi's could keep you at 100% uptime. Now I agree with adding a recourse timer on target. The only thing that seems a little hard is the length of the recourse and the % of the heal cut. You are correct that 60>20 is a drastic change. Obviously, it has an effect on being able to do things in PvE now.

Thank you all for taking the time to explain , I have been without a main pc just an old laptop so I havent been out and about pvping so I was kinda in the dark .

 

[mediocrebh]

Recourse being on the target is nice, however the duration is still something of concern. The cut% was reduced, and they can only apply it every 30 seconds, put's it far behind in terms of effectiveness of non-jedi. For example running Bacta Corruption and Dread Strike way outpaces you in terms of heal cut effectiveness. You didn't address why the recourse is also linked to damage reduction. Hoping for some clarification on if there are plans to specifically add recourse to just the heal cut, or if it shipped as intended.

While FRS decay being higher per rank is understandable to a certain extent to match the GCW system, GCW is far easier to get than FRS. What if a system was introduced to purchase FRS scrolls with FRS tokens? I know me personally, I probably have close to 400 tokens on my Jedi and have no intent on purchasing things from the vendor, I love playing on my TKM compared to my Jedi but aim to still keep my Jedi at max rank. It's like that on the GCW side, so is there plans to add a similar system to the FRS side? I understand that losing ranks is natural and not everyone is going to maintain Rank 6, but it should still be achievable while not having to main it for those who aren't trying to full-time Jedi PvP.

While I do agree closing gaps of exploits is absolutely neccesary, some feel as if the system is being overcorrected and those that are left are left with an uphill battle to maintain Jedi ranks and FRS tokens. Tokens have already been taken away for almost 2 weeks outside of event rewards, FRS rewards per kill is now more difficult with timer and the overall availability of World PvP outside of events. Its a butterfly effect that is weakening the Jedi system overall. A certain rollback to normal wouldn't hurt now that Staff are way more informed in ways that the system was exploited.

Well said...I agree with this, a change was needed and I'm all for a recourse timer, but this may be an overcorrection. I worry a bit about my damage being out healed. For instance, a build with medic will have multiple heals on a cooldown that is shorter than the recourse timer, so they have the ability to get multiple heals off before a jedi could do a heal cut. In addition, if the build has cleanse, it will pretty much eliminate the heal cut all together since the special will be off cooldown long before the recourse timer is up which will also save that toon a whole lot of action since they will not have to spam the cleanse ability enabling them to fire off more heals/debuffs/dps specials.

As far as FRS, I agree with decay...my issue is opportunities to gain it. I have no problem having to earn the points, but outside of pvp events, it's been hard to get it. Anyone that plays with me knows that I run around flagged on most of my toons and I rarely run into a situation for open world pvp during the late evening times est. When I do, it is usually against greater numbers (not complaining about numbers because it's nobody's fault they have more) so therefore I am only feeding people FRS without gaining any for myself. Before yesterday's update, I only gained about 2k for the whole week (since I left the jedi home during the pit fights) and I am on pretty much every evening making rounds. I did have a random player attack my jedi tef in eisley and I killed him the other night, but I didnt get any FRS because he happened to be the same faction as me...heck, it's been weeks since a BH has even come after my bounty. I have faith that we can get open world pvp happening if we steer the course, but it's not there yet. If I just repeated what others said, I apologize, I get a little lazy on my reading skills.